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State legislators who represent parts of Hoover, Alabama, answer questions at a public forum sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017. From left are state Sen. Jabo Waggoner and state Reps. David Faulkner, Jack Williams and Allen Farley.
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State Rep. David Faulkner, R-Mountain Brook, at left, and Rep. Jack Williams, R-Vestavia Hills, listen during a public forum on education sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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State Rep. Allen Farley, R-McCalla, listens during a public forum on education sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Parents from Hoover listen during a public forum on education sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017. At right is Christine Hofmann, president of the Hoover Parent Teacher Council.
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State Rep. Allen Farley, R-McCalla, introduces himself during a public forum on education sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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About 70 people showed up for a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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State Sen. Jabo Waggoner, R-Vestavia Hills, introduces himself during a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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State Rep. Jack Williams, R-Vestavia Hills, introduces himself during a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Hoover schools Superintendent Kathy Murphy speaks during a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Former state Rep. Paul DeMarco, a member of the Hoover City Schools Foundation board of directors, serves as master of ceremonies for a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Matthew Allen, president of the Hoover City Schools Foundation, welcomes people to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Janet Turner, executive director for the Hoover City Schools Foundation, welcomes people to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Student musicians entertain guests at a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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State Rep. David Faulkner, R-Mountain Brook, at left, talks with Hoover City Administrator Allan Rice and Hoover Mayor Frank Brocato at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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State Rep. Danny Garrett, standing at left, talks with Hoover school board member Amy Tosney at a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017. At bottom left, state Sen. Jabo Waggoner talks with Tera Simmons, assistant superintendent for Hoover City Schools.
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State Rep. Allen Farley, R-McCalla, talks with people at a dinner just prior to a a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Former state Rep. Paul DeMarco, a member of the board of directors for the Hoover City Schools Foundation, at left, and Hoover school board President Earl Cooper, at right, talk with Hoover police Chief Nick Derzis at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Hoover Mayor Frank Brocato talks with Hoover school board member Deanna Bamman at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Guests mingle at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Tera Simmons, an assistant superintendent for Hoover City Schools, talks with state Sen. Jabo Waggoner, R-Vestavia Hills, at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Hoover school board member Deanna Bamman, at left, talks with state Rep. David Faulkner, R-Mountain Brook, at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Sally Howell, executive director for the Alabama Association of School Boards, talks with state Rep. Danny Garrett, R-Trussville, at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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State Rep. David Faulkner, R-Mountain Brook, at left, talks with Anne Marie Everly of the Riverchase Elementary School Parent Teacher Organization at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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Shelley Shaw, a representative for the Berry Middle School Parent Teacher Organization, talks with state Rep. Jack Williams, R-Vestavia Hills, at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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State Sen. Jabo Waggoner, R-Vestavia Hills, in center, listens during a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
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State Rep. Allen Farley, R-McCalla, at left, talks with Hoover Mayor Frank Brocato at a dinner just prior to a public forum on education with state legislators that was sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel on Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2017.
Several Hoover area state legislators said tonight they would support legislation to remove the cap on the amount of property taxes Hoover can levy if the mayor and City Council passed a resolution asking for it.
The question came up at an education public forum sponsored by the Hoover City Schools Foundation at the Hyatt Regency Birmingham — The Wynfrey Hotel.
Susanne Russell of the Rocky Ridge Elementary School Parent Teacher Organization asked the four state legislators on tonight’s panel the question about removing the state-mandated lid on property taxes, commonly known as the “lid bill.”
Currently, if Hoover residents wanted to increase property taxes for education or anything else, they could only add only 2.4 more mills of property taxes before reaching the cap put in place by the state Legislature.
An additional 2.4 mills of property taxes would equal an extra $36 a year for Hoover property owners with a $150,000 home and likely would generate only a few million dollars a year.
Some education supporters say the Hoover school system may need more than that in the coming years as it faces growing enrollment, the need for additional school buildings and higher annual debt payments on existing debt.
Russell noted that the Homewood City Council on Oct. 27 unanimously passed a resolution asking the Legislature to make Homewood exempt from the lid bill so the city could vote on raising property taxes.
Mountain Brook, Vestavia Hills and Huntsville already are exempt from the lid bill.
State Rep. David Faulkner, a Republican whose district includes parts of Mountain Brook, Homewood, Hoover and Vestavia Hills, said he guesses he would support Hoover having that right to raise property taxes above the current cap.
“It would be up to your City Council and to the people of Hoover to decide if they want to raise their property taxes,” Faulkner said.
State Sen. Jabo Waggoner, whose district includes portions of Vestavia Hills, Homewood, Hoover, Birmingham and north Shelby County, said he and Faulkner agreed to sponsor the legislation Homewood requested, and he would be willing to do the same for Hoover if the Hoover council and mayor requested it.
Faulkner said Homewood reached the property tax cap 15 years ago and recently passed a sales tax to support schools. One difference between Homewood and Hoover is that Homewood is just in Jefferson County and a bill regarding Homewood would only require support from within Jefferson County, Faulkner said. Because Hoover is in both Jefferson and Shelby counties, removing the property tax cap for Hoover probably would require a statewide vote, he said.
“But yes, we would support anything to make you exempt just as we are going to try to do with Homewood,” Faulkner said.
State Rep. Jack Williams, who represents parts of Hoover and Vestavia Hills, said he is a big believer in self-government.
“I don’t think I got elected to go to Montgomery to tell you guys what you could and couldn’t do,” Williams said. “I want to hear what you want us to help you do. If folks in Hoover want to follow that path, then I think you ought to have the option to take it to the citizens and see if the citizens want to follow that path.”
That was just one of about 10 questions directed at the four Hoover area legislators at tonight’s public forum.
Anne Marie Everly of the Riverchase Elementary School PTO asked the legislators if they would support an increase in sales and use taxes if the increase were earmarked for public education.
Waggoner said it’s very difficult at the present time for members of the Legislature to increase taxes for any reason. Former Gov. Bob Riley’s $1 billion tax package several years ago was voted down overwhelmingly, and efforts to increase gasoline taxes the past couple of years were defeated soundly, he said.
He would vote for some tax increases, but a majority of legislators would not vote an increase in taxes, he said. While the people of Hoover, Homewood and Vestavia Hills would vote for some tax increases, a majority of the people in the hinterlands of Alabama will not, he said.
Faulkner said he’s a conservative and doesn’t like taxes any more than the next person, but he noted he voted in favor of raising cigarette taxes by 25 cents in his first legislative session because if that didn’t pass, people were talking about taking money out of the education budget. He hopes that is a good indication of his support for public education, he said.
Williams said he would rather first look at requiring people in rural districts to pay more toward education. The Legislature a few years ago voted to require all school districts to have 10 mills of property tax for education, and he would like to increase that minimum, he said.
He doesn’t mind the wealthier school systems helping out the less affluent school systems, but everyone needs to contribute, he said.
“I don’t mind coming to your house and helping you move your couch, but not while you’re sitting on it,” Williams said.
He also believes the Legislature should consider removing some tax credits for businesses that are no longer essential before raising taxes, he said.
State Rep. Allen Farley, who represents much of western Jefferson County and part of northwest Shelby County, including a small sliver of western Hoover, said if a sales and use tax increase were proposed, some people would ask why the Legislature doesn’t unearmark some existing tax revenues and redirect that money to education rather than raise taxes.
Ninety-seven percent of tax revenues in Alabama are earmarked, he said. He is chairman of a subcommittee examining the practice of earmarking, and legislators are working on some potential changes, he said. In the next year, people ought to see some results from that, he said.
Other questions tonight centered on funding for drug education and school safety, decriminalization of marijuana, unfunded state mandates for schools, the expansion or repeal of scholarship programs that allow children from failing public schools to receive public money to attend private schools, and the likelihood of the Legislature pulling money from the Education Trust Fund to support the state general fund.
Hoover schools Superintendent Kathy Murphy told the legislators that 734,000 students in Alabama public schools are depending on public officials to get education funding and accountability issues done right.
Alabama children deserve more than just an “adequate” education, but officials today aren’t even delivering that, she said.
Murphy quoted a statewide study done a few years ago that indicated adequate funding for education amounted to $7,500 per student per year, which she said would equal $5.5 billion.
The state currently provides $5,741 per student, totaling $4.2 billion, Murphy said. That means Alabama students are $1.3 billion short of getting an adequately funded education, she said.
The state’s Education Trust Fund in 2008 provided 90 percent of funding available for schools, while local districts on average provided 10 percent, Murphy said. For fiscal 2018, the state’s percentage of funding has shrunk to 86 percent, compared to 14 percent from local districts, she said.
School bus transportation was designed to be fully funded by the state, but the state now provides only 82 percent of the cost for transportation, and that percentage is decreasing, she said.
For 2018, Hoover is getting about $260,000 less from the state Education Trust Fund but is having to pay more than $1 million more back to the state for its minimum 10 mills of property tax funding, Murphy said.
The superintendent also told legislators she favors holding school districts accountable for results but doesn’t embrace the A-F report cards the state is preparing to release in December.
It’s not fair to grade school districts on the performance of students on tests a few days at the end of the year before school lets out when students know the test has no impact on their grades, report cards or graduation, she said.
Regardless, Murphy said even when she disagrees with legislators on some things, she has the utmost respect for them and asked them to continue to engage local school districts and allow people in those districts to have a voice.
Waggoner said gatherings such as this are as good for legislators as they are for residents because it gives them a chance to hear what their constituents want. He’s glad the forum took place before this year’s session begins in January because things get hectic once the session starts, he said.
About 70 people showed up for Tuesday night’s public forum, including Mayor Frank Brocato, several Hoover City Council members and school board members and representatives from various Hoover parent organizations.
Gene Fuller, a resident of The Preserve community, said he was happy that the legislators were willing to spend time talking to residents but disappointed more people didn’t show up for the forum, which he considered very informative.
He knew a lot of state tax revenues are earmarked but is amazed that 97 percent of them are, he said. That helps him understand better why it’s hard for legislators to put more money into education, he said.
He doesn’t consider himself a Democrat or Republican but is disappointed to see Republican legislators using behind-the-scenes tactics to accomplish goals, like they formerly accused Democrats of doing when Democrats were in control, he said.
The Republicans’ handling of the Alabama Accountability Act, which created the scholarship programs that allow children from failing public school zones to receive public money to attend private schools, is a prime example, Fuller said.
Farley said legislators should have talked more about the Alabama Accountability Act before they passed it.
This article was updated at 11:36 p.m. with comments from Hoover schools Superintendent Kathy Murphy, Hoover resident Gene Fuller and an additional comment from state Rep. Allen Farley.
